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03 December 2006 @ 09:41 pm
I was sick of this a long time ago  
Ok, fandom, listen up. Often male characters who are canonically tough and strong are turned into whiny, spineless crybabies. This annoys me, as I'm sure it does you. However, newsflash, they are not being "turned into girls". Being weak willed is not a female trait. It seems like anytime anyone wants to insult a male character, they imply or outright state that he's feminine (which happens in real life too). There's a character in one of my fandoms who's very, very jealous, and is constantly accusing his fiance of cheating on him. I have heard this character accused of "acting like a jealous woman." No, he acts jealous. There is nothing inherently feminine about jealousy.

What really took the cake was this quote:

Yuri's a badass, even when he's fallin' in love...definitely far from a girl.

So, girls can't be badasses, then? Great.

Current Mood: annoyedannoyed
TeaRoses: Courtney Yeah by drwormrosehiptea on December 4th, 2006 05:09 am (UTC)
Thank you! You articulated that much better than I could. Using "turned into a girl" as an insult is starting to drive me crazy.
Jeannettevon_questenberg on December 4th, 2006 05:46 am (UTC)
Yes, that pisses me off too. Especially when the phrasing is used in connection with slash- get homophobia and misogyny, two for the price of one!
A Figment of My Own Imagination: I read the Bible- whitetowerveleda_k on December 4th, 2006 06:00 am (UTC)
It's just not homophobia without that helping of misogyny!
Jeannette: Liberty/Justicevon_questenberg on December 4th, 2006 06:23 am (UTC)
I've always found a little transphobia can make all the difference as well- gives it a nice aftertaste.
A Figment of My Own Imagination: Trans-lidiveleda_k on December 4th, 2006 06:42 am (UTC)
Add a few hearty dashes of privilege and you've got yourself a meal.
Jeannette: Subaruvon_questenberg on December 4th, 2006 07:13 am (UTC)
Ah, but don't forget the racism and good old-fashioned Marx-style classism. :D Food of the patriarchy.
A Figment of My Own Imagination: Truth- masquerade_artsveleda_k on December 4th, 2006 07:23 am (UTC)
You've got no choice but to choke it down!

I can't stomach it though.
Sister Atom Bomb of Courteous Debate: gwendalakiko on December 4th, 2006 12:38 pm (UTC)
Have you ever noticed the trend in Japanese yaoi/BL manga wherein the uke (always the uke) is drawn extremely effeminately and cries at the drop of a hat and other stereotypically "female" things? *pukes* The guy is just a stand-in for the stereotypical shoujo romance protagonist. If I wanted to read about a whiny crybaby and a Big Strong Man, I'd read shoujo romance. (OK, there's non-whiny shoujo romance. It's hard to find though.)

I have used "girly" as shorthand for fandom turning a strong male character into a spineless git who acts more like the stereotypical shoujo heroine than a) the character canonically or b) any woman I've ever met. I don't mean it as an insult to the character or to women in general; more like as an aspersion on the writer, for falling into Stereotypical Romance Conventions. I think in future, I'll prepend "stereotypical" to avoid confusion.

(I <3 Conrad/Yozak. I like saucy redheads who really like crossdressing ;) )

Sorry to post & run, but I have to go to work.
A Figment of My Own Imagination: What masculinity issues?- psychodragon82veleda_k on December 4th, 2006 04:33 pm (UTC)
I think it's easiest just to say exactly what you mean. If the author has turned the character into a spineless git, say "spineless git." That way, everyone knows exactly what you mean.

(I love Yozak and his macho crossdressing)
Sister Atom Bomb of Courteous Debateakiko on December 4th, 2006 11:42 pm (UTC)
True enough. I'm just lazy. (Well, and I avoid fandom in general because I'm tired of the canonically-strong-man-turned-simpering-delicate-flower that 4 of every 5 fics were. So I only read fics by or recced by people I trust, and the situation is easily avoided.)
lady looks like a dudesodzilla on December 4th, 2006 06:46 pm (UTC)
Sadly, I've learned to expect this sort of thing from guys. Not all of them, but a large complement. What REALLY gets to me though, every time, is when girls say the same kind of thing.

What, you associate your OWN gender with everything that's weak, impractical, frivolous and thoughtless? Way to go with the self-hate.
A Figment of My Own Imagination: Lesbians are better- Caitirinveleda_k on December 4th, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC)
I agree. It's absolutely infuriating when guys say it, but I'm disturbed when I hear it from women. I wonder if they even really understand what they're saying.
capybyracapybyra on February 16th, 2007 09:00 pm (UTC)
Another view on this.
It's that social structures are all about propagating their memes.
That's why the literal language structures of some cultures are so.
All it takes is for the very words themselves to become tools.
I could give some examples- but some earlier ones on this thread have done the basic concept's sanity check. Then again- ?
What examples CAN we all come up with that fit the original post's concept?

One of my favorites that defines *CULTURAL* gendering in character roles was from "Doc" Smith. Contextually ,it was said from a strong male lead to a female lead who by plot elements was held as nearly EQUALLY strong- if not STRONGER! Ah, the line?

"Men swear to keep from crying,Women cry to keep from swearing"